Christian Retailing

Church Bookstores
Sagemont Bookstore welcomes new director PDF Print E-mail
Written by Ginny McCabe   
Tuesday, 02 September 2014 04:00 PM EDT

Retiring teacher begins new ministry at Houston store

BeckyFrenchSagemont Bookstore welcomed Becky French as the new director of the bookstore and café in June. A retired high-school English teacher, French assumed her new role in June after responding to an advertisement in the church bulletin at Sagemont Church in Houston.

 “I was teaching, and I was about ready to retire, but I didn’t want to just retire,” French told Christian Retailing. “I was looking for something, and this seemed like an opportunity that I couldn’t pass up. I finished teaching on a Friday and started working at the store on Monday.”

From working at a bookstore in college and serving as a missionary in Japan to teaching, enjoying good books and discussing the truth of God’s Word, French’s background and skills have helped to prepare her for the new post.

“It’s the right fit,” she said. “I really feel like the Lord opened up this opportunity for me and helped me to see it.”

French saw the opening in the bulletin while visiting her daughter’s church.

“When I saw it, it immediately connected with me,” she said. “I felt like it was the Lord nudging me, saying, ‘This is for you.’ I have a confidence that God does know what He wants us to do, and He has a plan for us.”

The store has one full-time employee—the director—and one part-time employee. Additionally, the bookstore and café are staffed by a volunteer team of about 30 to 50. The store is open six days a week, serving a church membership of more than 19,000 as well as surrounding communities. Led by Senior Pastor Dr. John Morgan, with two Sunday services, the church sees an average of 6,000 attend each week.

In French’s new position, she hopes to continue to successfully support the store and its ministry. She brings to the role a desire to learn new things and discuss ideas with the store’s customers.

“I hope to keep the ministry going as strongly as it has in the past and make it even better, but I believe the store is already quite attractive and running well,” she said. “So, I hope to keeping it going as well as it has been.”

In its 10th year, the 2,500-square-foot Sagemont Bookstore stocks a mix of books, Bibles, greeting cards and gift items. The store’s best-sellers include Bibles, church-branded T-shirts and jewelry. The café occupies an additional 500 square feet.

 
New Hope finds success with low turnover rate of volunteers PDF Print E-mail
Written by Ginny McCabe   
Tuesday, 02 September 2014 03:58 PM EDT

Church members are encouraged to use their gifts by serving in the Southeast Texas store

NewHopeStaffNew Hope Church Bookstore in Manvel, Texas, depends on a committed team of volunteers to keep its store operations running smoothly.

“We use volunteers for 99% of what we do, especially when the store is open,” said Director of the Welcome Ministry Jeanne Terrill for one of the church’s four campuses. “It is staffed by volunteers and merchandised by volunteers.”

With a team of about 70 regular volunteers, Terrill said several factors contribute to the store’s low turnover rate.

“We’ve had the same volunteer base for almost nine years,” she said. “We have a very low turnover in our bookstore, probably less than a 10% turnover rate.”

The church store recruits recruit volunteers, typically by word of mouth.

After a volunteer is recruited, they fill out paperwork, complete an online orientation and go through formal training, then the volunteer works with a team leader who is an acting manager.

The store uses a hands-on training process, and volunteers spend the most time learning how to help shoppers select a Bible and working on the store’s point-of-sale system. Initially, a volunteer will work as a greeter, then will graduate to the P.O.S.

Terrill said the store looks for individuals who are friendly, outgoing and helpful.

One volunteer by the name of Jess described her experience: “There is a unique element to volunteering in the bookstore, which is the level of interaction with church members. You are forced to learn a few things and have more time to share and interact. And, of course, our current teams are fun to work with.”

Another team member, Leslie, added: “For me, I am a conversationalist, and this service allows me to talk. I also can make small contributions for Christ. Mostly though, it is easy, challenging, fun, flexible and filled with welcoming team members—plus I get to shop!”

New Hope is a multi-site church with three stateside campuses—the 288 Campus, Alvin Campus and East Campus—as well as one in Haiti. Each U.S. campus has a store, which range from approximately 200-1,000 square feet. Combined, the church has 11 services each weekend, and each service has a different set of volunteers for the store locations.

To keep turnover down, Terrill and her team operate under these guidelines: Schedule volunteer time to coincide with when volunteers attend church; listen to their story and help them serve in an area that best suits their gifts; have volunteer team leaders that act as liaisons between church staff and the volunteer team to share information about new products, weekly promotions or resources that complement the weekend lesson; schedule annual P.O.S. training; offer volunteers a store discount as a way to thank them; and be sure to have fun.

 
United Methodist bookstore modernizes Houston store PDF Print E-mail
Written by Ginny McCabe   
Tuesday, 02 September 2014 03:55 PM EDT

Restyling at Chapelwood church store brings new and functional update

IMG 2073The Bookstore and Coffee Shop at Houston’s Chapelwood United Methodist Church is  refreshing its look. The store has been given a boost with slatwall to hang wall art and a modern core-board menu sign above the café counter.

“The bookstore was designed so it’s also available as a seating area when the bookstore is not open, so I have bookcases that have glass doors on them that close and lock. The wall of the bookstore is a tile wall that curves in, then has the coffee shop cut out with a counter area,” said Kris Jodon, bookstore manager and librarian.

Prior to the redesign, the flat tile wall had a menu on it, but that left little or no room to display wall art, which sells well at the store.

With the renovation, the menu was removed from the tile wall, and the space was covered with approximately 15 feet of slatwall for the display of wall art with products from vendors like P. Graham Dunn, Carpentree and Glory Haus.

Jodon said the new and improved 3-by-5-foot café sign will work better because the menu is positioned above the counter directly in front of customers who are ordering. She collaborated with the church’s communications department to create the new menu sign.

“I think it will get noticed,” Jodon said. “With our new pastor, Rev. Dr. John Stephens, we have a lot of things that are being done differently. For example, about three years ago, we changed our colors to using different tones of green. Keeping in line with that, we got new signage last fall to bring the bookstore up to date.”

The store uses signage and placement to showcase the books and studies that are planned or are in progress at the church so people can find what they need to participate.

“Anytime you do something new, your customers will respond,” Jodon said. “They’ll look up and they see that there’s been some change, and it gets them a little more interested in what’s happening.”

The floor plan for the store and coffee shop includes an approximately 720-square-foot area. The space features an espresso-drinks bar, nine bookcases, a center display area that can showcase 90-100 books face out, three small slatwalls, a Kerusso T-shirt spinner, a book spinner and three card spinners.

“This is all in addition to three coffee-shop tables and chairs, two sofas, four easy chairs and two ottomans,” Jodon said. “We make excellent use of the space.”

The manager described the store as a warm community space. It is an open space that remains usable even when the bookcases are closed and the gifts are put away. Team members also pray with and minister to their customers.

Chapelwood has five worship communities—Mercy Street, Center for Christian Spirituality (contemplative), Upper Room, three Sanctuary services and Esperanza—each unique and serving somewhat different congregations. The communities bring a variety of customers into The Bookstore and Coffee Shop—and the need for a variety of products.

 
Dare to make over your store PDF Print E-mail
Written by Natalie Gillespie   
Monday, 09 June 2014 03:44 PM EDT

Promises-SawhorseUse these five keys to create a fresh new design and layout

Online shopping may be one popular way to buy today, but a recent study shows that in-store experiences are still more valuable to customers—if the store makes them feel like they are getting a customized shopping experience.

Consulting firm A.T. Kearney recently studied the shopping patterns of more than 3,000 U.S. and U.K. consumers and found they spent 61% of their shopping time in stores.  Even better news for brick-and-mortar stores: 40% of the in-store shoppers spent more than they had originally planned, while only 25% spent more than expected when they shopped online.

Customers today have limited time and budgets, so what compels them to drive to their local Christian retail store instead of ordering online? A personalized, positive experience.

Today’s consumers head to the store for the instant gratification of taking an item home, but also to experience products and to socialize with friends and family. They want to shop in welcoming, inviting retail spaces that engage their senses. That’s why it is critical for retailers to take a good hard look at their stores and see if it’s time for a makeover.

“We are constantly moving things around, creating new displays,” said Susan Lewis, co-owner of Logos of Dallas, which celebrates its 40th anniversary this summer. “I see a difference when I do. I think it is a big deal. When I change things up, I see more movement in product. If something doesn’t work, we move it somewhere else. Just like in real estate, it’s all about location, location, location. I may have an art canvas that’s been on a wall for six months. Then I move it to a new spot, and it sells in one day.”Elynn-IceCreamJewelry

“What Christian stores need to do is make sure they are rebranding themselves as current, not stuck back in the 1980s and ’90s,” said Emily Fielitz, visual merchandiser and owner of Elynn. “You do that with new colors and signage and by creating display tables. It doesn’t have to take much time or investment. You can do it by reutilizing items that you already have.”

With reality television shows, websites and hundreds of thousands of Do-It-Yourself (DIY) projects on the Internet offering step-by-step advice on everything from complete makeovers to the most detailed displays, design experts say there is no excuse for any store to look dirty or dated.

“We move our store front to back and back to front at least quarterly. That includes books, Bibles, everything,” said Danni Schneidt-Hill, owner of Promises in Billings, Montana. “You know the retail rule: 80% of your customers only see 20% of your product. Just by moving the same product around, customers say, ‘Oh, look at all the new stuff you got.’ It’s not new, but it’s new to them because they are seeing it for the first time.”

Consider the following five keys to learn how you can refresh your store’s visual appeal to new and longtime customers:

1. HAUL IT ALL OUT

“Retail lives and dies based on the answer to the question: ‘What’s new?’” said Bob Phibbs, retail speaker, expert and consultant known as The Retail Doctor. “If a store has not updated in years, I would tell them to do the same thing you see on reality TV shows. Haul it all out. Take everything out of their store and clean it. Clean the whole thing. Honestly, that’s where it all starts.”

Phibbs says the advantages of emptying the store completely are many, including the chance to see old things in a new light, the opportunity to find things you didn’t even know you had and a way to give a fresh look to the store because it sparkles again.

“After that, you can add a new coat of paint or new carpet, but really cleaning everything out is the best first step,” Phibbs said. “Then we take some of the items that were in the back and put them in the front, move the shelves around, replace all the lights. Start with a clean slate, and suddenly you’ll get more optimism about your place.”

Stores should be painted at least once every three years, Fielitz suggests, because of dings, chipping and fading by sunshine and fluorescent lighting. When you paint, stick with the basics on your biggest walls, like an off-white with a little bit of gold in it, a slight brown-beige or a true beige.

“The color of the year, like this year’s Radiant Orchid, is always a fad color and will only last a year or a couple of years at the most,” Fielitz said. “You want to use really good, neutral colors on your main walls and then add what I call ‘super neutrals’ on the smallest wall or an accent wall. Make your accent wall the easiest one to paint, like a wall between two columns. Then you can change it more frequently.”

Super neutrals include true navy blue, vivid red, chocolate brown and deep gray, like the colors Ralph Lauren is known for, Fielitz noted.

“These are consistent colors, year after year,” she said. “Then you can use fabric on a wall or paper accents on displays to add in trend colors like orchid.”

Another key to freshening up your store is to make sure the light fixtures are appealing to the eye. Lights should be clean and bright enough to illuminate, but not glaring. Get to know the pros and cons of different kinds of light bulbs—fluorescent, incandescent, halogen and CFL (compact florescent light bulb).

Light fixtures can easily be created by painting old lamps or lampshades to give them a new look, hanging several shades together (like a mobile) or even making a light fixture from crib springs hung with mason jars or wrapped in Christmas lights.

2. DRAW THE EYE

Once your store sparkles, it’s time to put it back together. If you can’t empty the store, you still need to move fixtures, displays and products often to give customers something new to focus on every time they visit.

Phibbs notes that directing traffic flow with design is important. In North America, people walk into a store and turn right, then walk counter-clockwise.

“If your cashiers are in front and on the right, you have a situation where your customers who want to pay constantly have to cross through other customers just entering your store,” Phibbs said. “This limits and degrades the shopping experience.”

Keep crowding down by creating lots of open spaces and aisles. Break up your bookshelves into smaller sections. Four-foot sections are ideal, with focal points of color in the middle.

“You want to think about the 4-foot space,” said Sherry Morris, marketing manager for Carpentree. “Think: ‘How do I design this 4 feet?’ rather than just having rows and rows of bookshelves. You can add garland, Christmas lights, something to draw the eye.”

“Often, the gifts area of a store is so distinctly different than the book section that it looks like two different stores,” Fielitz said. “Break it up, have callouts. Sometimes the gift side looks like so much more fun, while the book side looks like a library. You don’t want to buy gifts at the library. Make it easier for customers to walk between your rows by adding a little seating area, or hang artwork on the ends.”

“If you never do anything else in your rows and rows of books, redo your endcaps,” Schneidt-Hill said. “Put a chair on the end with a night table and a candle with an open Bible or a book. You can do so many fun things with your endcaps.”

3. REUSE WHAT YOU HAVE

Rustic and vintage looks are extremely popular, and experts predict the trend will stay due to tighter economic times, a concern for the environment, the popularity of DIY and the nostalgia factor. That makes it easy for retailers to create new displays without a lot of cost or time by simply using things they already have or buying inexpensive items at garage sales, flea markets and thrift stores.

One example is turning wood pallets into walls, stacked displays and backdrops. They also can be cut to make shelves, tables and benches.

“We have stacked pallets and made a garden area, screwed them to the wall, painted them and done all kinds of things,” Schneidt-Hill said. “We’ve taken springs from a baby bed and hung them from the ceiling, then hung items from it. You can use old boxes, books, just about anything to add interest to a display.”

“Right now, everything is rustic, very vintage,” agreed Vicki Geist, co-owner and buyer, Cedar Springs Christian Stores, Knoxville, Tenn. “We have a little area upstairs where we just keep everything we might use. We have a little school desk and other things we can bring down as we need them.”

“You can get old books [or magazines], like Reader’s Digest and encyclopedias, and use them to display jewelry and gifts,” Fielitz said. “You can stack a few and hang them as a shelf. Hang them like a mobile with a light in the middle, and you have a new fixture.”

Fielitz said Goodwill stores and Habitat for Humanity’s ReStores can be treasure troves for retailers wanting a new look. Old plywood, lumber, windows, doors, dressers and drawers can be converted into shelves, tables, signs, room dividers and jewelry display cases. Buckets, wooden boxes and crates of different heights add depth and interest to tabletop displays. Ribbon, greenery and floral arrangements also can add warmth and color.

“A lot of stores still have the glass with brass or chrome shelving units and display cases and those just look outdated,” Fielitz said. “Sell them on Craigslist and use the money to buy some antique night tables, end tables, cabinets or fireplaces. With things like that, you can spray-paint them and do just about anything.

“Take a log and cut it into 8-inch, 6-inch, 4-inch and 2-inch risers to use as jewelry displays instead of putting it under glass,” she added. “Customers really need to see and feel the merchandise. When it is under glass, the perception is that it is too expensive or that it is cold, not inviting. It will sell better when it is more accessible.”

“A lot of my display pieces are antiques or garage sale pieces,” Schneidt-Hill said. “Right now I have two really rough sawhorses. I took an old door and put wooden boxes on top and greenery around it, then added cross vases and picture frames. It didn’t cost me anything. The old door was in my garage.

“I use accent pieces, like a guitar sitting in my music section. I’ve used badminton or tennis rackets, baseballs and footballs during sports seasons. I have a little plastic basketball hoop I put on the back side of the door, then put a table in front of the door and add a sports devotional on it.”

Schneidt-Hill says even if a retailer is extremely design-challenged and feels like he or she doesn’t have any artistic talent, simply try something new.

“You don’t have to do the whole store,” Schneidt-Hill said. “Start small and you’ll find it is easy to do. Get your staff to help. We’ve had contests for the one who can bring in a certain item from their house.”

Geist agrees that even little changes can make a big difference.

“I went and bought some paint rollers, and we turned them on their side and put bracelets on them,” she said. “Last year, we had some pieces of plastic grass and put that on the table with the jewelry on it for spring. At one of our stores, they put gift bags with the tissue paper already fluffed up in them on display right near the registers. There are about 12 different ones, and they sell constantly. We also bought some big white frames with no glass or back, and we hang those on the wall behind the registers and highlight a book or CD or DVD inside to draw attention to that product.”

4. COLOR IS KING

A splash of color often helps sell product.
“Color is king,” said Rick Segel, owner of Rick Segel and Associates and author of The Retail Sales Bible. “Just look at a presentation of towels in a big box store. It’s the color that sells you and not the product.”

“Add color touches to displays to bring out the colors on books and CDs,” Geist said. “Keep colors together and give it a clean look, not jumbled. You can buy wrapping paper and tear a little bit and put it on table displays.”

Wrapping paper, tissue paper and fabric are great ways to add color that is cheap and temporary. Gift wrap can be wrapped around flatwall, put in picture frames, torn into confetti and taped around endcaps. Tissue paper can be transformed into flowers on the wall, stuffing for gift bags, padding inside boxes and used in many other ways.

“All of my flatwall has some kind of something on it—paper, material, tissue, those kinds of things are easy,” Schneidt-Hill said. “And if you already wrap gifts for customers and have that 495-foot bolt of wrapping paper, how much energy does it take to use some on your flatwall and then put holes where you hang things? There you have it, a new look for nothing.”

“Last year I decided turquoise was my color, and I used just plain wrapping paper with a sheen to it,” Logos’ Lewis said. “I bought rolls and rolls of it and put it behind displays, under countertops, behind plexiglass. I covered pedestals with little splashes of color throughout the store. It was a fun way to refresh things.”

 “I just spent time in Branson (Missouri) and walked a row of gift stores, and I went into one where everything was just kind of stuck out there,” Morris said. “Then I went into a really beautifully arranged store, and the difference was amazing.

“The store was filled with what I call ‘vignettes,’ where they started with a framed-art piece on a wall or table or easel that set a color tone, then brought in all kinds of product—lotions, scarves, jewelry—all done around color. It was just beautiful and felt good. People wanted to shop, and they were buying. The other store had basically the same things, but all they were selling was candy and some lower-end trinkets. You need to do some vignettes that set the stage with the products you have.”

5. SHARE THE MESSAGE

While it’s easy to get ideas and step-by-step instructions, especially with the advent of Pinterest.com, it can be more difficult to create your brand. Your design should tell your story, with the emphasis on the categories that are your specialty. Customers should be able to see and hear your story, to experience your mission and ministry through signage, products with a message and personal touches.

“The two biggest trends in the world are spirituality and giving back,” said Steve Slaughter president of gift company Halle Joy. “That’s why we create products with a message with every piece. When a customer sees our jewelry, it tells a story of hope or a story of grace. And when they wear it and someone notices it, it is an opportunity for them to share the message.”

Slaughter said Christian stores who see their story as their brand and develop their strengths and specialties can offer a more customized experience to their shoppers.

“Instead of chasing promotions, stores should be building their brand,” Slaughter said. “When you go into Home Depot or Fossil or Pandora, you recognize the look, the brand. When a store starts pulling together fixtures and creating their own look, they are developing their brand. People say not to sweat the small stuff, but when we design a new line, we sweat everything. We want our pieces to look good from the front, the sides, the back. We have an eye on the current trends. We pay attention to detail, and everything has to be inspired by Scripture.”

Slaughter said customers are attracted to messages of hope and grace, and Christian stores give that hope when they share their story through inviting displays.

“Stories unite people, stories create multiple sales, stories create loyalty,” he said.
Retailers should know their community’s story too.

“Know your community, so you can do lifestyle events,” Schneidt-Hill said. “If you live in a golf-loving community, set up a mini putting green and let customers try to get a hole-in-one for a coupon. Have a basketball shoot on your lawn during basketball season. Figure out what your community loves, know its story, so you can bring them in.”

“I let local artists tell their story by bringing their pieces in on consignment,” Lewis said. “There is no financial risk to me, and it gives the artist a chance to display their work. It also freshens up the store.”

Giving a store a design overhaul can be work and fun, retailers agree. And it is crucial for any store wanting to stay competitive today.

“It does take effort and energy,” Lewis said. “I look at the industry magazines as often as I can, and I am always looking for new ideas wherever I am. Whether it’s the mall or a restaurant, I look for creative ideas. I always have my antenna up.”

Lewis said if you can’t do it yourself, enlist help. She gets assistance from a designer she met at church. Other stores use community college fashion and design students who want to add new displays to their portfolios.

“I also seek the help of my staff,” Lewis said. “I will ask my younger staff what appeals to youth. I try always to be open because I feel like with merchandising and displaying things, it can always be done better.”

“Change your displays once a month,” Morris said. “Try to look at your store with a fresh eye. Go for that quaint factor, not the ‘typical’ Christian bookstore.”

“A common mistake is thinking a business has to be in dire shape to need a makeover,” Phibbs said. “That isn’t true. Stagnant sales show up before declining sales. You want to make changes while customers are still coming in the doors. As long as you are thinking forward, that’s fun. If you’re not thinking forward, you can’t compete.”

 
Vineyard store offers training for disabled PDF Print E-mail
Written by Production   
Monday, 09 June 2014 03:08 PM EDT

Vineyard-Columbus-2Vineyard Columbus Bookstore in Westerville, Ohio, recently reached out to members of their community to provide a job-training program for the disabled. Teaming up with Central Ohio’s Greenleaf Job Training Services, the store was able to train several individuals in the work of a bookstore clerk.

Bookstore Ministry Coordinator Jeff Baker said he and his staff were able to offer job training skills, which included dusting and cleaning the store, alphabetizing books by author’s last name, burning sermon CDs and mastering basic computer skills.

“I was approached by a Greenleaf job trainer, who told me about their company that helps Ohioans with disabilities to get training for jobs,” Baker said. “They weren’t necessarily training for a job in my store, but we were training them to see what it would be like or to see if they could function in a role of a bookstore clerk.”

Greenleaf is a for-profit social enterprise that serves a niche segment of the Ohio population. The organization’s clients include veterans, individuals with learning disabilities, those who have suffered traumatic brain injuries, people with visual or hearing impairments and others who face significant barriers in gaining employment.

“I thought this was a good way for us to reach out to our neighbors and to be a light in the community,” Baker said.

Baker and his staff worked with each individual and his or her job coach. Each training period lasted two weeks, but didn’t require a lot of time from the manager.

“We trained them on each function,” he said. “The job coach and the person we trained would then go and complete those particular jobs in our store. It turned out to be a win-win situation. We got to know them, and they had the opportunity to ask questions and finish each of the tasks. It went really well.”

The 3,200-square-foot store typically employs one full-time staff member along with four part-time clerks. A team of 37 volunteers assist the store staff.

“The main role of our bookstore clerks is to have a heart for discipleship and the gift of hospitality, to be warm and welcoming to people who come into the church and into the bookstore,” Baker said.

 
Celebration Church expansion leads to store move PDF Print E-mail
Written by Ginny McCabe   
Monday, 09 June 2014 03:04 PM EDT

TheLoft-EntranceNorth Florida’s The Loft bookstore relocates as congregation led by Stovall Weems grows

The Loft Café & Bookstore in Jacksonville, Fla., now occupies a new facility—a move necessitated by the expansion of Celebration Church. After the 2013 move, the church campus doubled its seating capacity to about 3,000.  

 Trevor Olesiak, The Loft Bookstore & Café Director, said the store operated in a 250-square-foot space on the old campus.

The new store-café operation “was something that was designed and built in a three- to four-month period, and that really speaks to our incredible designer, so we’ve been operating in this new location for a little over a year,” Olesiak said.

The store and café share the same space, and a storefront roll-down gate leads into the church lobby.

“When we put that gate down and our doors are closed, the bookstore and café are modularly shut off from the rest of the building,” he said. “It allows us to do private events without having to open the entire building. It also enables us to be extremely connected to the building during a weekend experience.”

The café and store share the same colors, with uniform cabinetry and mobile fixtures.

“The vibe of the café and bookstore really matches the entire vibe of the whole campus,” the store manager said. “That’s something I’m really proud of and enjoy. It makes a big difference for us. It doesn’t feel like one environment in the church and then you walk into the bookstore and it seems totally different.”

The store has a youthful, nontraditional feel. Unlike many stores,  there are no endcaps, for instance.

“It’s all cabinetry and shelving that was designed to fit within the environment and theming,” he said.

The store is named The Loft because the space is two stories with an upstairs area. The second floor features open seating for about 250.

“It allows us to do cool events and things like that, from author events to summer movie nights,” Olesiak said.

One recent example was the launch of The God-First Life (Zondervan), the latest from the church’s pastor, Stovall Weems.

The Loft is primarily open Sundays and Wednesdays to meet the church’s needs.

The store’s philosophy is “to resource the kingdom, but we also want to fund ministry, so most of our items are set at retail price,” he said. “We do different promotions and sales, but we don’t do a lot of heavy discounts. Part of our story is that by shopping here, it’s maybe a dollar more expansive than it is on Amazon, or at Walmart, but you’re funding ministry.”

 
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